six without doing rates. we aren't going to get to a trillion six so it becomes a little academic. >> can we get to 1.2 trillion where you think and i think and other people think we're going to end up without raising the rates? >> you can do it mathematically. it works. you know, you can write laws that do it. the question you have to say to yourself, do you want to start eliminating charitable deductions for state and local taxes, for charitable, health care, retirement funds? in other words do you really want to turn people's behavior inside out almost overnight by changing the way taxes work so quickly? >> you're as plugged in as anybody, mark, to washington right now. are these guys talking to each other in a real, meaningful way? i know they put out the information that the president talked to john boehner yesterday but are there real behind-the-scenes intense negotiations going on as we're now less than four weeks away from this thing? >> in talking to people on both sides yesterday they had the identi